if we really believed in free markets, when it we just not have a debt ceiling? you'll not be able to borrow more money, interest rates will shoot up. why do we need a limit? >> as far as principals, we do not. congress wants to have a say in their overall issue of that. we already have evidence that it is too high. countries at our level of debt grow more slowly. that is not doubt and that is what the president needs to focus on. connell: our point here is that we talked about this a number of times, they will get their act together in washington when they are forced to. they will say -- when interest rates shoot up to a level that hurts us, then, they will cut spending. this debt limit negotiation comes up every so often and creates all this nonsense and drama. we know they will raise the debt limit at the end of this, they always do. >> and they should, quite frankly. somewhere between january and august of this year, it is imperative that this country take a different course and entitlement spending programs. the numbers add up to something that is unsustaina